| 12-5-99 FBI Electronic Listening
Device auth. #59827215494063: |
| Dunkin’ Donuts |
| 37 W. 52d St., Seattle |
| Do you get it, Erin? |
| Get what, Joe? |
| When she talks about
death. |
| Her alternative myth? |
| Yah. But it’s not a
myth. |
| No. Right. |
| It is an alternative
story, but factual. |
| Right. |
| Do you get it? |
| Yes. I understand the
concepts. So you talked with her about this. |
| Yes. Our lives will have
effects after we are dead. |
| Uh-huh. |
| Since we are not dense,
the effects our lives will have are not all that
different from our what our continuing to survive
would be. |
| It’s pretty
different, Joe. |
| Yah, but the causal
effects we will have --those are facts -- and our
getting reborn in some situation would just mean
there would be some different types of effects. I
mean, since we are not dense. |
| True. You are beginning
to sound like her. But one needs some stories to
go with it, otherwise it’s too abstract. And
once you have the stories, the abstract outline
is secondary. |
| But with only stories
then you might tend to stay stuck with the
assumption of density. |
| Huh. Maybe so. |
| Do you know any stories,
Erin? |
| What? |
| Do you know any stories
to go with it? |
| Yes, sure. |
| Like what? |
| Well, for instance, I
have a friend from Hungary who told me a story
like that. |
| Who is your friend? |
| Kati Balog. We met at a
philosophy conference. |
| What happened? |
| There is a woman who
lives in New York and who emigrated from Budapest
in 1938. She is about 85 years old now. She is
the daughter of Kati’s grandfather’s
best friend. There was a birthday party for her a
couple of years ago in New York, and a bunch of
people came to it. Kati went to it too, of
course. |
| What about Kati’s
grandfather? |
| Oh, no. He’s been
dead for some time. He was Kati’s hero when
she was a girl. And there were other people at
the party who knew him. |
| What did they say? |
| I don’t know. I
can’t remember what she said. They really
admired him. The woman knew him when she was
young, before she left Hungary. She admired him
too. I can’t remember the details. |
| What did Kati say about
the party? |
| She told me that being
there in that room with those people was like her
grandfather was holding her again. |
| Wow. |
| The happiness of his
life, whatever happiness it held, was increased
by the warmth everyone felt that day as they
talked about him. |
| But how could he -- oops,
I almost assumed density!-- |
| Oh. Well, be careful. |
| --Ok, I see. His life had
effects at the party. He didn’t experience
anything, since he was already dead, but the warm
effects count as part of his happiness since even
if he’d been there at the party to enjoy it,
it still would have counted as his
only because of causal interrelatedness of
various events. |
| Joe, yah. That’s the
idea. I think maybe you talked with Zo too much. |
| Maybe that is why
Aristotle said you couldn’t really tell if a
person had a happy life until long after they
were dead. |
| Well, that’s a good
point, Joe. But I didn’t mean to get you
back into abstractions but so much as simply to
make vivid how one’s life has effects. |
| Huh. Do you think we can
lift our gaze-- |
| What? |
| --without yielding to
make-believe? |
| Joe, we are animals. Our
blood gushes, our flesh rots. |
| It is magnificent. To be
in that situation, and yet lift one’s gaze.
--So that was the story? |
| Well, yes. Sorry. I
thought I’d be able to remember more. Kati
told me quite a lot about it. |
| Oh. |
| Joe, there are a million
stories like that right now in this one single
donut shop. Just look at your own life. You
don’t need somebody else to tell you. |
| Huh. |
| We should probably get
back. Whoa! Look
at this! --The walking dead! |
| Zoe, what are you doing
out here? |
| I felt like taking a
walk. I needed some fresh air. I knew where to
find you guys--Oops-- |
| Joe! She’s passed
out again!! --WAKE UP! |
| Zo! Wake up! |
| Dang it!
[Dana!
[?]] --are you listening? Can
you help us? |
Mulder:
Scully, it almost sounds like she said your
name here. She is
screaming so it is distorted-- no doubt
"dang it" as I
transcribed it. (?) --would you mind
clarifying this?
|
| Ok, Erin, let’s
go. -- Joe, you take her feet! |
| [Tape end] |